Recollections:
The Middle Tennessee Voices of Their Times Series
Television Program with
Milton Murray
Date Unknown
Interviewer: Dr. Bob Bullen, Professor of Educational Leadership and Dr. Gloria Bonner,
Associate Dean of the School of Education at MTSU
Middle Tennessee State University
Produced by Television Services, Middle Tennessee State University
© Middle Tennessee State University
ABSTRACT: An interview with Milton Murray, a WWII veteran and Civil Rights Activist. The
interview is conducted by Bob Bullen, joined by Dr. Gloria Bonner, and also features Reverend
Leroy Johnson as a second interviewee. In Part 1 of the interview Murray discusses his
childhood in a segregated Columbia County and reminisces about his father, a doctor, and his
family. He talks about the first lynching in his memory, boxing, and his relationship with Alex
Haley, author of Roots. Part 1 features Murray discussing his joining the army in 1941 and his
subsequent stationing in Africa. In Part 2 Murray continues his discussion about his time in the
army, including his time stationed in Italy, the hanging of Mussolini, and his time stationed in
Japan; He tells about his homecoming to the United States. Murray discusses, in length, the
Columbia Race Riot of 1946, and his role in it, including his saving the life of Thurgood
Marshall. He concludes the interview discussing Martin Luther King Jr.
PART 1
Time Count
Description of Program Content
0:00:00
Opening title screen
0:00:07
Dr. Bob Bullen introduces himself and his co-interviewer, Dr. Gloria Bonner,
Associate Dean of the School of Education at MTSU. Bullen then introduces their
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guests, Reverend Leroy Johnson of Columbia, Tennessee, and Milton Murray,
World War II veteran and civil rights activist.
0:00:52
Bullen reveals that Murray dedicated his life to the civil rights movement. Murray
was a “significant participant” in the Columbia Race Riot of 1946 and “saved the
life” of future Supreme Court justice Thurgood Marshall. Murray also
participated in the 1946 Million Man March in Washington, D.C.
0:01:26
Bullen begins the interview by asking Murray when he first noticed the societal
differences between blacks and whites and white discrimination against blacks. In
response, Murray recalls a trip to the grocery store that occurred when he was
about age four.
0:02:50
Murray recounts walking to school “all the way across Columbia,” during which
he passed two white schools that he was not allowed to attend.
0:03:30
Murray reveals that upon asking jeering white children why they disliked him,
they gave a “blank look” and admitted that they did not know why.
0:03:57
Murray shares his philosophy, inspired by the wisdom of his grandfather,
regarding civil rights for African-Americans.
0:05:30
Bonner asks Murray to give details regarding his heritage, including his relation
by marriage to Roots author Alex Haley.
0:06:42
Murray again expounds on his personal philosophy and the struggles of AfricanAmericans.
0:09:04
Bonner steers the interview back to Murray’s relationship with Alex Haley and
the real-life Kizzy. Murray praises the work of Haley.
0:10:53
Bonner asks Murray to describe the background of his parents and their influence.
Murray reports that his father was a doctor who died when Murray was age six or
seven, and that his mother had a beautiful singing voice. After his father’s death,
young Murray had to help raise his two sisters and younger brother.
0:12:15
Murray reminisces about a white couple, Dan and Edith Cathey, who owned a
local store. Mrs. Cathey was kind to young Murray, allowing him to work in her
store in exchange for goods and giving him “significant” advice and
encouragement.
0:15:38
Bullen inquires about Murray’s father, a doctor who served in World War I.
According to Murray, his father hit upon an early cure for African “sleeping
sickness” [African trypanosomiasis].
0:16:43
Murray reveals that his father trained at Meharry Medical College.
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0:17:03
Murray retells his father’s stories regarding his service in the war. Because he was
black, the doctor was prohibited from caring for white soldiers.
0:18:46
Because his father placed a high importance on education, Murray worked hard to
provide higher education for his siblings.
0:20:14
Bonner mentions an old family tradition amongst blacks that requires the oldest
sibling to care for the family. Murray confirms this, and admits that he faked
stomach aches and told his mother he was too sick to eat so to make sure his
siblings were well-fed.
0:21:48
Murray recalls an incident in which his mother spanked him for “back[ing] up
against … God’s wind.” He regards this incident as having taught him an
important life lesson about facing challenges head-on.
0:22:50
Bonner inquires as to how Murray’s father was able to go to medical school.
Murray reports that “his people” pooled their money together and sent the
smartest youth to college.
0:24:11
Murray reminisces about his education. He attended College Hill School in
Columbia, TN for grades one through eleven. In 1941, he volunteered for the US
Army.
0:24:53
Murray discusses how he applied his personal philosophy to his approach to the
Army.
0:25:38
Murray talks about swimming in the Duck River, and taking this talent into the
Army. He mentions a Lieutenant Cassidy and a Sergeant [Ingram? Ankrum?] who
took notice of his swimming prowess and recruited him for a mission to blow up
an old boat hull. Murray’s success in the mission led to the promotions of Cassidy
and the Sergeant, and led to Murray’s place in history as being the first black
frogman.
0:30:01
Bullen poses a question to both Murray and the Johnson regarding the first time
they became aware of lynching. Johnson tells a story of his sister living on a racist
white-owned farm in the 1940s.
0:31:17
Johnson recalls his past. In 1949, he lived in Columbus, Ohio, and recalled not
being able to drink from water fountains while traveling. One night in 1952, he
remembers being “ten miles on this side of Louisville” and being forced to steal
gas from a service station.
0:32:15
Murray answers Bonner’s question about lynching. Murray recalls a man named
Cordie Cheek as being the first lynching victim he could remember. Cheek was
hanged from a tree in Culleoka, and the rope used to hang him remained on the
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tree for years afterward. Murray also recalls a man being hanged from the Maury
County courthouse, and the rope used at that hanging also remained for years.
Murray mentions “making a picture” with Mrs. Ann Holt.
0:33:52
Bonner asks Murray to recall other details regarding growing up in segregated
Columbia. He recalls an incident in which a young black boy was cruelly pushed
to the ground by a white man for drinking from the white water fountain. Murray
subsequently pushed the man and suffered no consequences of doing such.
0:34:47
Murray goes off on a tangent about dependent relationships with whites.
0:36:04
Bonner inquires about Murray’s career as a boxer. He attributes boxing success to
having stamina and the “urge to kill.” He recalls traveling to Camp Claiborne,
Louisiana and meeting Joe Louis.
0:36:55
A black-and-white photo appears with the caption “Joe Louis”
0:37:04
Murray mentions Fort Huachuca and Fort Bragg. He was a part of the 41st who
traveled to the all-black 92nd Infantry Division.
0:38:01
Murray tells a story about Joe Louis, whom he described as being “understanding
and considerate,” and inadvertently punching Pearl Bailey at a boxing match [or
USO show?].
0:39:13
Murray reveals that he also met “Sugar Ray” Robinson and then goes on to
describe Robinson’s boxing skills.
0:40:17
Bullen asks about Murray’s involvement in the bombing of Pearl Harbor. When
the bombing occurred, Murray was stationed at Camp Blanding, Florida. He
recounts that fateful day.
0:40:40
B&W photo, “Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor December 7, 1941.”
0:41:29
Murray reveals that all of his commanding officers in the army were white when
he was inducted at Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia. He claims the military training
given by white people was difficult for blacks to understand.
0:43:06
Murray recalls when he was read the Articles of War for refusing to pick up
cigarette butts (Murray was a non-smoker). A white man, Colonel Collins, was
his commanding officer.
0:44:14
Murray attributes his skills as a marksman to hunting rabbits in his youth.
0:44:39
Bullen inquires about Murray’s career with a combat engineering group. Murray
brags that he became skilled at working with explosives. Murray felt that though
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his new commanding officer was white, he was “more understanding” than
Colonel Collins and because of this Murray was able to learn more.
0:45:24
Murray rose to the rank of Buck Sergeant. Thereafter, his unit went into Tunis in
east Africa. His unit’s primary mission was to destroy bridges.
0:45:49
B&W photo, “Kasserine Pass”
0:46:30
Bullen informs the viewer that Americans suffered losses at Kasserine Pass.
0:47:33
Bullen reports that the general feeling amongst army men were that black troops
were “not reliable.” Bullen asks Murray how he dealt with lack of confidence
from whites. Murray claims that he didn’t feel a lack of confidence from whites,
but he does admit that whites would have preferred Germany to win the war than
for black people to kill white Germans.
0:48:53
Bullen cites literature that described the treatment of German prisoners-of-war as
being better than the treatment of American black troops. Murray then recounts a
story about a German plane that was shot down near his unit.
0:51:05
Murray recalls being issued sub-par equipment.
0:52:25
Murray describes Benjamin O. Davis, Jr, and reveals that Davis Jr. was neither
heroic nor inspirational to him. Murray states his opinion that Davis was not
“tough,” and Davis was living in a “different world.”
0:53:06
Bullen asks Murray to give his impressions of General Bernard Montgomery.
Murray tells Bullen that he treated black troops “differently” than did other white
generals.
0:54:11
Murray is asked to give his impression of General George S. Patton. Murray
reveals that he disliked Patton because he “made a comment” about Eleanor
Roosevelt who, Murray says, was viewed by soldiers as a role model.
0:54:44
Bullen concludes part one of the interview.
0:55:01
Credits
0:55:29
END OF PART 1
PART 2
0:00:00
Opening title screen
0:00:15
Dr. Bob Bullen introduces himself and his co-interviewer, Dr. Gloria Bonner,
Associate Dean of the School of Education at MTSU. Bullen then introduces their
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guests, Reverend Leroy Johnson of Columbia, Tennessee, and Milton Murray,
World War II veteran and civil rights activist, both of whom were witnesses and
participants in the Columbia Race Riot of 1946.
0:01:18
Murray gives his account of the events that took place at Anzio, Italy in the Italian
campaign.
0:02:13
Bullen asks Murray what it felt like to shoot someone for the first time. Murray
explains that his “urge to kill” and that it was easier knowing that it was shoot or
be shot.
0:04:01
Murray reveals that he never feared death.
0:04:40
Murray explains that the geography of Anzio made it difficult for American
troops to move in and out.
0:05:09
A black-and-white photo appears with the caption “D-Day Jan. 22, 1944 Anzio
beachhead.”
0:05:18
Bullen inquires as to Murray’s treatment by the Italians. Murray recalls coaxing
an Italian boy out from beneath his porch with a bar of chocolate.
0:08:34
Bullen asks Murray if he feared capture by the racist Germans. Murray replies
that in the event of his being captured, he would have chosen death.
0:08:51
Murray reveals the reason for his successes in leadership, and then gives an
account of firing a sub-machine gun at dissident soldiers to establish his
superiority.
0:11:15
Murray describes viewing the corpses of Mussolini and his mistress hanging by
their feet in the public square in Italy. He admits that he was disappointed by the
execution, as he wanted to kill Mussolini himself.
0:11:31
B&W photo, “Mussolini and his Mistress”
0:12:55
Murray felt that the Mussolini execution was an Italian “peace offering” of sorts
to satisfy the Americans.
0:14:36
Bullen points out that one of Murray’s motivations to join the Army was to fight
against Mussolini. Murray reiterates that Mussolini’s execution was a let down for
him.
0:15:05
Bullen implores Murray to share any other recollections of the Italian campaign.
Murray reports witnessing the vandalism of cathedrals by souvenir-hunters.
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0:15:52
Murray came up with the idea to take opposing troops off of Hill 609 in North
Africa [Tunis]. Because of his idea, Murray claims, U.S. troops were able to
overtake the hill.
0:19:49
Murray reveals that his ambition in the Army was to be a “big brother;” he
enjoyed settling fights between soldiers.
0:21:19
Bullen reveals that Murray is one of a “handful” of soldiers that fought against
both the Germans and the Japanese in WWII. Murray recalls being stationed in
the Philippines after the war was over and fighting against Japanese soldiers who
were not aware the war ended. Murray recounts his experience fighting against an
attempted Japanese ambush.
0:23:51
Murray recalls the use of flamethrowers as a means of clearing out enemy
bunkers.
0:24:09
Murray is asked to detail the differences between the fighting styles of Japanese
and German soldiers. Murray replies that German soldiers were master tacticians
and loathed to surrender, while the Japanese used politeness to lure troops to their
deaths.
0:25:23
Bullen asks Murray to list all of the regiments and groups he was a member of
during his stint in the Army.
0:27:13
Bonner inquires about Murray’s post-war life in Columbia, Tennessee. He reveals
that he was not given a hero’s welcome. Murray then gives an account of the
events regarding the Columbia Race Riot of 1946. He reveals that black men Saul
Blair and James Morton gathered black war vets and put them in “key positions”
for the battle.
0:30:45
The Columbia Race Riot is also known as the Mink Slide Riot because of the
black business district being called Mink Slide. Murray explains that it was called
Mink Slide because people threw bits of food into a creek near black businesses
and wild minks would appear, grab the food, and slide back down into the creek.
0:31:19
Murray recounts that most of the fighting occurred around Eighth Street, near the
Duck River Factory, which has since been razed.
0:33:43
Bullen reviews the sequence of events that occurred that fateful night in late
February, 1946.
0:34:50
Murray explains that in incidents prior, if whites could not find the guilty blacks
to lynch, that “anyone would do.” This is why the blacks chose to fight the white
mob on this occasion.
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0:35:47
Murray confirms that most of the battle took place in only one block of Mink
Slide area. This block contained Saul Blair’s barbershop and James Morton’s
funeral home.
0:36:08
The Maury County Sheriff and the Mayor of Columbia called Governor Jim
McCord, who sent in the National Guard to put down the riot. Murray recalls that
the National Guard went to every black residence in Columbia and confiscated
any weapons found. Meanwhile, James Johnson and William Gordon offered
themselves as martyrs. They were both killed while in police custody.
0:38:26
Murray reveals that he was age 22 at the time of the riot; he goes on to give more
of his recollections.
0:40:14
There were over 100 blacks arrested after the riot, and all were released but about
25. NAACP lawyers Thurgood Marshall, Z. Alexander Looby, and a white lawyer
named Maurice Weaver defended the 25 in court. The trials were moved to
Lawrenceburg, Tennessee.
0:42:22
Bullen reviews the timeline of events that occurred after the riot.
0:42:56
B&W photo, “Thurgood Marshall”
0:43:08
Murray describes Thurgood Marshall as being very well-educated and
authoritative.
0:44:46
Rumors swirled amongst the black community that Marshall was going to be
lynched. Murray went to the Columbia courthouse carrying “five pounds” of
leftover explosives he took from the Army. He and his cohorts, including
“Popeye” Bellefant, Herbie Johnson, and Reverend Johnson, were able to get
Marshall out of Columbia.
0:47:26
Bullen reveals that Marshall had been commuting between Nashville and
Columbia. After the threat on his life, Marshall asked to be taken to a safe house
in a black neighborhood. Murray felt his humble “shack” was not good enough
for Marshall, but Marshall felt he would be safer there than in the moreconspicuous homes of the wealthy blacks.
0:48:31
Murray discusses the aftermath of the riot. His cattle and horses were slaughtered
in the field and his home was burned along with all of his possessions.
0:49:55
Bullen credits Murray for saving Marshall’s life by getting him out of Columbia.
0:50:33
Murray quotes the Bible and then expounds further on his personal philosophy.
0:52:03
Murray reminisces about his experiences with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in
Birmingham, Alabama.
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0:52:34
B&W photo, “Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.”
0:52:50
Murray was hired by a Pulaski, Tennessee undertaker named James Brown to
locate one of the men responsible for the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing of
1963. Murray admits to finding a man named Robert Chambliss in Atlanta. When
asked what happened next, Murray simply says, “We got him life.”
0:55:24
Bonner asks Murray to give his personal impressions of Dr. King. Murray first
proclaims that he was present in Memphis when King was assassinated, and then
goes on to describe his relationship with King.
0:56:26
Murray recalls participating in civil rights marches in Mississippi and other
places.
0:57:06
Murray shares his most vivid memory of the day King was assassinated. Murray
is convinced that James Earl Ray was not the triggerman, but instead, he was shot
by “someone from the government.”
0:59:48
Bullen thanks Murray and Johnson for appearing on the show, and then thanks the
viewer for watching.
1:00:19
Credits
1:00:51
END OF PART 2
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