Molba za izmjenom pravilnika o pravima liječnika

Molba za izmjenom pravilnika o pravima liječnika iz trećih država u
okviru Hrvatske liječničke komore i Ministarstva unutarnjih poslova
Application for the Amendment of the Regulations Regarding Third
National Doctors in Croatia within the Croatian Medical Chamber and
Ministry of Interior
28. listopad 2013 | October 28, 2013
Autor | Author:
Muhammad Zeitsev bin Azman, dr. med., dipl. biokem
Trpimirova 27
10000 Zagreb
TEL: +385 97 623 9367
EML: [email protected]
BLOG: http://yeopazman.wordpress.com
LINKEDIN: http://www.linkedin.com/in/yeopazman
Primatelji | Recipients
Prim. Hrvoje Minigo, dr. med.
Lora Vidovid
Hrvatska liječnička komora
HR Ombudsman
Ulica fra Grge Tuškana 37
Opatička 4
10000 Zagreb
10000 Zagreb
TEL: +385 1 450 0830
TEL: +385 1 485 1855
EML: [email protected]
EML: [email protected]
WEB: http://www.hlk.hr
WEB: http://www.ombudsman.hr
dr. Ivica Babid
Médiateur européen
Hrvatski liječnički sindikat
1 avenue du Président Robert Schuman
Šubideva 9
CS 30403
10000 Zagreb
F-67001 Strasbourg Cedex
TEL: +385 1 465 5610
France
EML: [email protected]
TEL: +33 3 8817 2313
WEB: http://www.hls.hr
WEB: http://www.ombudsman.europa.eu
g. Ranko Ostojid
H.E. Dato Yean Yoke Heng
Ministarstvo unutarnjih poslova
Embassy of Malaysia
Ulica grada Vukovara 33
Slavujevac 4a
10000 Zagreb
10000 Zagreb
TEL: +385 1 612 2111
TEL: +385 1 483 4347
EML: [email protected]
EML: [email protected]
WEB: http://www.mup.hr
WEB: http://www.kln.gov.my/web/hrv_zagreb/home
prof. dr. sc. Rajko Ostojid, dr. med.
Ministarstvo zdravlja
Ksaver 200a
10000 Zagreb
TEL: +385 1 460 7555
EML: [email protected]
WEB: http://www.miz.hr
Muhammad Zeitsev bin Azman, MD BSc
Trpimirova 27
10000 Zagreb
Croatia
TEL: +385 97 623 9367
EML: [email protected]
BLOG: http://yeopazman.wordpress.com
LINKEDIN: http://www.linkedin.com/in/yeopazman
Muhammad Zeitsev bin Azman, MD BSc
Trpimirova 27
10000 Zagreb
Croatia
TEL: +385 97 623 9367
EML: [email protected]
BLOG: http://yeopazman.wordpress.com
LINKEDIN: http://www.linkedin.com/in/yeopazman
October 28, 2013
28. listopada, 2013
To: Dr. Hrvoje Minigo,
Dr. Rajko Ostojid,
Mr. Ranko Ostojid,
H.E. Yean Yoke Heng,
EU Ombudsman and Croatian Ombudsman,
Dr. Hrvoje Minigo,
Dr. Rajko Ostojid,
Mr. Ranko Ostojid,
H.E. Yean Yoke Heng,
EU povjerenik i pučki pravobranitelj RH
Poštovani,
My name is Dr. Muhammad Zeitsev bin Azman and I
would like to bring up to your attention the inability for
me to pursue my career in medicine by being a thirdcountry national in Croatia. Currently I am unemployed
and am having difficulty grasping the regulations and
bureaucratic procedures needed to work as a Medical
Doctor. There soon will be a few doctors, who are also
third-country nationals, who will graduate from the
University of Zagreb and be in the same position.
Moje ime je Muhammad Zeitsev bin Azman i ovim putem
bih Vam želio skrenuti pozornost na svoju nemogudnost
da kao stranac ostvarim poslovnu karijeru u Republici
Hrvatskoj u području medicine. Trenutno sam
nezaposlen i imam teškoda u shvadanju pravilnika i
birokratskih protokola potrebnih da bih mogao raditi kao
doktor medicine. Uskoro de biti još nekoliko doktora koji
su stranci a diplomirat de na Sveučilištu u Zagrebu te de
se nadi u istoj situaciji.
Since my father was stationed in Croatia, I decided to
attend an ex-Harvard Medical International program at
the University of Zagreb in 2003 and graduated the 6
year program in 2009. I then went back to Malaysia to
start my internship.
Obzirom da je moj otac bio na položaju u Hrvatskoj,
odlučio sam pohađati bivši harvardski međunarodni
doktorski studij na Sveučilištu u Zagrebu 2003. godine i
2009. godine, nakon šest godina studija sam diplomirao.
Tada sam se vratio u Maleziju da bih započeo svoje
stažiranje.
However the degree was not recognized in Malaysia
and after 4 months of fighting unemployment, I decided
to come back to Croatia to finish my internship and to be
licensed as a doctor, only to find that the Croatian law
stated that I needed to be a citizen of Croatia to attend
my internship, do the state licensing examination, obtain
a license and to specialize. Dr. Jean Loup Gassend, from
France, was also in the same situation.
No, diploma mi nije priznata u Maleziji te sam, nakon
četiri mjeseca borbe za pronalaskom posla, odlučio
vratiti se u Hrvatsku da bih završio stažiranje i stekao
zvanje doktora. Ovdje sam tada saznao da hrvatski
zakoni navode da bih morao biti državljanin Hrvatske
ako želim stažirati, položiti stručni ispit, stedi zvanje I
specijalizirati. Dr. Jean Loup Gassend iz Francuske je
također bio u istoj situaciji.
After amending the regulations from the Ministry of
Health, we started the one year internship, studied for
the Croatian state licensing examination, passed in April
and were only allowed a temporary license to practice.
Since Dr. Gassend is an EU citizen, he has the right to a
regular license, but moved to Switzerland to work when
Croatia joined the EU in July 2013.
Nakon izmjene pravilnika Ministarstva zdravlja, započeli
smo jednogodišnje stažiranje, pripremali se za državni
stručni ispit, položili ga u travnju i tada smo dobili samo
privremenu licencu. Obzirom da je Dr. Jean Loup
Gassend građanin EU, on ima redovnu dozvolu no
odselio se u Švicarsku kada je Hrvatska ušla u EU u srpnju
2013.
Croatia is currently lacking 4500 doctors, so I decided to
stay and work despite the compensation compared to
other EU countries. I found a job as a General
Practitioner in Emergency Medicine in Zadar County and
began work. In July, I moved to Primary Health Care for
Rijeka because of the direction I wanted my career to
move into. I could not extend my contract after the
tourist season and am now looking for new employment
as a General Practitioner in Croatia, or to specialize in
Family Medicine or in Internal Medicine to advance my
career as a Medical Doctor. Unlike most people, I do not
mind working in rural areas and recently applied to
positions in Slavonija, Međumurje and islands on the
coast. However since I cannot currently hold any license,
I have been rejected by almost every position.
U Hrvatskoj trenutno nedostaje 4500 doktora pa sam
odlučio ostati i raditi usprkos lošijoj naknadi
uspoređujudi ju s EU državama. Zaposlio sam se kao
doctor opde prakse u Hitnoj službi Zadarske županije i
započeo raditi. U srpnju sam se prebacio na Dom
zdravlja u Rijeci zbog želje da radim u tom području.
Nisam mogao produljiti svoj ugovor nakon turističke
sezone i sada tražim novi posao kao doktor opde prakse
u Hrvatskoj ili kao specijalizant obiteljske ili interne
medicine kako bih napredovao. Za razliku od vedine
ljudi, ne smeta mi raditi u seoskim sredinama i nedavno
sam se prijavio na mjesta u Slavoniji, Međimurju i
priobalnim otocima. Međutim, zbog neposjedovanja bilo
kakvog uvjerenja, odbijen sam na gotovo svakom
natječaju.
Since I also cannot specialize in Croatia due to the
regulations set forth by the Croatian Medical Chamber,
am a third national in the EU, hold a degree that is not
recognized in my home country, cannot afford the high
costs of the PLAB, PRES or USMLE; I feel that I have been
misled by the promises made by the University of
Zagreb, the Ministry of Health and the Croatian Chamber
of Medicine that have made me lose tuition cost for 6
years studying at the University of Zagreb Faculty of
Medicine, the high costs of living in Croatia and the loss
of 10 years of valuable work experience.
Obzirom da ne mogu specijalizirati u Hrvatskoj zbog
regulative postavljenih od strane Hrvatske liječničke
komore, jer sam stranac u EU, posjedujem diploma koju
me ne priznaje moja domovina, ne mogu si priuštiti
troškove polaganja PLAB, PRES ili USMLE ispita, osjedam
da sam bio doveden u zabludu obedanjima datih od
strane Sveučilišta u Zagrebu, Ministarstva zdravlja i
Hrvatske liječničke komore. Ta obedanja su rezultirala
financijskim gubitkom, od školarine za šest godina
studiranja na Sveučilištu, visokih troškova života u RH te
gubitkom deset godina dragocjenog radnog iskustva.
In the next few pages, I have noted the reasons why I
should have the right to at least a regular license to
practice. On my blog (http://goo.gl/aNnD6f), you can
see different email responses from Medical Chambers
and Councils from several European countries stating
their regulations. Although I graduated from the
University of Zagreb, did my medical internship in Zagreb
and passed the Croatian Licensing Examination, I am only
allowed a temporary license and am refused
specialization only based on my nationality.
U nekoliko stranica koje slijede, naveo sam razloge zašto
bih trebao imati barem pravo na regularnu licencu. Na
mojem blogu (http://goo.gl/aNnD6f), možete vidjeti
različite odgovore od liječničkih komora do savjeta iz
nekoliko europskih država koje navode svoje regulative.
Iako sam diplomirao na Sveučilištu u Zagrebu, odstažirao
u Zagrebu i položio državni ispit, dobio sam samo
privremenu dozvolu i odbijena mi je specijalizacija
temeljem svoje nacionalnosti.
Thus, I implore you to make the necessary changes in the
regulations set forth by the Croatian Chamber of
Medicine to include third national doctors, so that when
the opportunity arises to fulfill the deficit of doctors in
Croatia, a Croatian-trained doctor can have the right to
practice finally his oath.
Stoga, molim Vas da uvedete neophodne promjene i u
regulative postavljene od strane Hrvatske liječničke
komore, uključite i doktore-strane državljane, pa kada se
ukaže prilika za popunjavanjem manjka doktora u
Hrvatskoj, da i doktor koji se školovao u RH ima pravo
prakticirati zvoj poziv.
Thank you for your patience and Sincerely,
Hvala na pažnji,
Dr. Azman
S poštovanjem
Dr. Azman
Important Legislation
Važne odredbe u zakonodavstvu
From The Constitution of the Republic of Croatia:
Iz Ustava Republike Hrvatske:
Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental
Freedoms
1. Common Provisions
Temeljne slobode i prava čovjeka i građanina
Article 14
All persons in the Republic of Croatia shall enjoy rights
and freedoms, regardless of race, colour, gender,
language, religion, political or other conviction, national
or social origin, property, birth, education, social status
or other characteristics.
All persons shall be equal before the law.1
Članak 14.
Sve osobe u Republici Hrvatskoj imaju sva prava i
slobode, neovisno o njihovoj rasi, boji kože, spolu, jeziku,
vjeri, političkom ili drugom uvjerenju, nacionalnom ili
socijalnom podrijetlu, imovini, rođenju, naobrazbi,
društvenom položaju ili drugim osobinama.
Svi su pred zakonom jednaki.
Introduction
UVOD
Being a third national doctor in Croatia, an EU country, it
is nearly impossible to be accepted for any position.
Since Croatia’s accession in to the EU, there have been
amendments to the ordinances governing third nationals
in the country. I attended the full program at the
University of Zagreb, Faculty of Medicine, did the one
year internship, the state licensing exam in Croatian, and
am now having difficulty obtaining a permanent license,
as I do not have the same rights as Croatian or EU
nationals despite my commitment to Croatia.
Gotovo je nemogude dobiti bilo kakav posao u Hrvatskojčlanici EU-a, ako ste liječnik i istodobno državljanin jedne
od zemalja tredeg svijeta. Otkako je Hrvatska primljena u
punopravno članstvo Europske Unije donesene su brojne
izmjene i dopune u pravilnicima koji uređuju prava osoba
iz zemalja nečlanica EU-a. Pohađao sam i završio
cjelokupni studijski program na Medicinskom fakultetu
sveučilišta u Zagrebu,odradio godinu dana stažiranja,
položio državni stručni ispit na hrvatskom jeziku, ali
usprkos tome ne mogu dobiti redovnu liječničku licencu
zbog toga što nemam ista prava kao hrvatski državljani ili
državljani zemalja EU-a iako osjedam vrlo veliku
privrženost prema Hrvatskoj.
Background
POVIJEST
In 2003, I moved to Croatia to attend the University of
Zagreb, Faculty of Medicine. It was originally in English
and a Harvard Medical International program that had
the promise of being, “USMLE Included”. This is a very
important fact that attracted a lot of students, because
most medical graduates will have to spend around USD
10,000 to complete all three steps of the USMLE. Within
the third year, the school dropped the program and
adjusted to become compliant with the Bologna system.
2003. godine doselio sam se u Hrvatsku da bih pohađao
Medicinski fakultet sveučilišta u Zagrebu. Program je
prvotno bio na engleskom jeziku kao dio Harvardskog
međunarodnog liječničkog programa koji je trebao biti
priznat i kao licenca za liječnika u SAD-u. To je vrlo važna
činjenica koja je privukla mnoge student jer inače vedina
diplomanata medicine mora platiti oko 10 000 američkih
dolara da bi položili sva tri stupnja potrebna za dobivanje
liječničke licence u SAD-u. Tijekom trede godine studija,
fakultet je odustao od programa te uskladio studij sa
Bolonjskim procesom.
1. Zajedničke odredbe:
I graduated on time in 2009 and decided to go back
home to Malaysia only to find that the degree is not
recognized.2 After four months of being unemployed, I
moved back to Croatia and applied for the internship,
only to find out that I needed a Croatian Citizenship to:
1.
2.
3.
4.
Attend the internship,
Do the state licensing examination,
To be regularly licensed, and
To be able to specialize.
Diplomirao sam u roku 2009. godine, te sam se odlučio
vratiti kudi u Maleziju da bih tamo saznao da mi ne
priznaju diplomu. Nakon što sam bio nezaposlen 4
mjeseca, odlučio sam se vratiti u Hrvatsku i prijaviti za
stažiranje, no tada sam saznao da trebam hrvatsko
državljanstvo da bih mogao:
1. Odraditi stažiranje
2. Položiti državni stručni ispit
3. Dobiti redovnu liječničku licencu
4. Dobiti priliku za specijalizaciju
Dr. Jean Loup Gassend and I managed to amend the first
in 2011 and the second in 2013, allowing the foreign
graduates of the University of Zagreb to attend the
internship and to do the state licensing examination.
Dr. Gassend is a French national, which is a point that I
will bring up later in this paper. Before Croatia joined
the EU and all EU amendments to the laws took hold, I
was allowed a license and easily obtained a job during
the summer when doctors were lacking during peak
tourist season.3
Dr. Jean Loup Gassend i ja smo uspjeli napraviti prve
dvije od navedenih četiri stvari, te smo tako omogudili
stranim diplomantima Sveučilišta u Zagrebu da stažiraju i
polože državni stručni ispit. Dr. Gassend je francuski
državljanin što je važna činjenica koju du kasnije
obrazložiti. Prije hrvatskog pristupanja u EU i prije nego
što su EU amandmani stupili na snagu, mogao sam dobiti
liječničku licencu te sam vrlo lagano našao posao tijekom
ljetne turističke sezone kada je postojao manjak liječnika.
However after July 2013 when Croatia joined the EU, the
laws changed and since I am a third national and would
like to stay and work in a country missing 4500 doctors4
and Croatian doctors are leaving for better
opportunities5,6 and the thing hindering me now are the
new ordinances from the Ministry of Interior7, which
states that I need to have an minimal one year
employment contract and the Croatia! Most employers,
even within the Ministry of Health, will not give a
contract longer than 6 months unless you are in a
specialization. According to the Croatian Chamber of
Medicine (HLK), a person from a third nation has no right
to specialize in Croatia8, thus limiting the possibilities of
advancing my career.
Međutim zakoni su se promijenili nakon što je Hrvatska
ušla u EU te mi je kao državljaninu zemlje nečlanice EU-a
koji bi želio raditi u zemlji u kojoj nedostaje 4500 liječnika
i u kojoj hrvatski liječnici odlaze iz zemlje u potrazi za
boljim prilikama, onemogudeno raditi zbog novih propisa
MUP-a koji određuju da za dobivanje radne dozvole
morate imati ugovor o radu u mnimalnom trajanju od
godine dana. Međutim vedina poslodavaca, čak i unutar
samog Ministarstva zdravstva, ne daju ugovore na duži
rok od 6 mjeseci osim ako ne pohađate specijalizaciju.
Hrvatska Liječnička Komora propisuje da državljanin
zemlje izvan EU-a nema pravo obavljati specijalizaciju u
Hrvatskoj te tako ograničavaju moj profesionalni
napredak.
In the newly published proclamation from the HLK, in the
“Pravilnik o izdavanju, obnavljanju i oduzimanju
odobrenja za samostalan rad (licence)” (članak 21-29)9, a
person like me has no right to a full license due to my
nationality despite:
1. Graduating from the University of Zagreb,
Faculty of Medicine10,
2. Completing my internship at KBC “Sestre
Milosrdnice”11 in Zagreb, and
3. Passing the Croatian State Licensing Examination
in on April 25, 2013.
U novom pravilniku HLK-e: “Pravilnik o izdavanju,
obnavljanju i oduzimanju odobrenja za samostalan rad
(licence) osoba poput mene nema pravo na trajnu
liječničku licencu samo zbog mog stranog državljanstva
lako sam:
1. Završio Medicinski fakultet u Zagrebu
2. Stažirao u KBC ”Sestre Milosrdnice” u Zagrebu
3. Položio državni stručni ispit na hrvatskom
This would not be a problem, but the health institutions
have not caught up to European Union standards and
still require many documents that a Croatian-graduated,
third-national like me cannot obtain. The usual
requirements to obtain a position:
To mi predstavlja problem zato jer se hrvatske
zdravstvene institucije još nisu uskladile sa EU
standardima te traže mnoge dokumente koje strani
državljanin poput mene ne može dobiti. Također tu je
još I nemogudnost dobivanja specijalizacije za državljane”
tredih zemalja” u Hrvatskoj.
"In addition to a written request, submit: resume and a
copy of: diplomas, license, identity cards, certificates of
proficiency in a foreign language and an electronic record
or certificate from the Croatian Pension Insurance
Institute of proof of employment."
- Zavod za hitnu medicine Grada Zagreba).
“Uz pisanu zamolbupriložiti: životopis i presliku: diplome,
licence, osobne iskaznice, potvrde o poznavanju
stranogjezika i elektronsk izapi s ili potvrdu Hrvatskog
zavoda za mirovinsko osiguranje o random stažu.”
Another aspect to consider is the lack of the ability to
specialize in Croatia for third nationals. According to the
EU Directive 2013/25/EC12, the equivalent to a General
Practitioner in the EU is to have a specialty in Obiteljska
Medicina or Family Medicine. Since I cannot specialize in
Croatia due to my nationality, my career is blocked only
by administration. I understand the need of compliance
of qualifications between nations and schools before a
specialization is given. However, my qualifications and
license were obtained in Croatia, and in most EU
countries, there would be no hindrance in obtaining
further training only based on nationality if this was the
case.
Prema direktivi EU-a liječnik specijaliziran za opdu
medicinu u EU je jednak liječniku koji je specijalizirao
obiteljsku medicinu u Hrvatskoj. S obzirom da zbog svog
državljanstva ne mogu odraditi specijalizaciju u Hrvatskoj
administracija direktno blokira moju karijeru. Shvadam
potrebu da se uskladi stupanj obrazovanja među
različitim nacijama i fakultetima prije davanja odobrenja
za specijalizaciju. Međutim,ja sam svoje obrazovanje
stekao u Hrvatskoj i u vedini drugih zemalja EU-a ne bi
postojale zapreke za specijalizacijom utemeljene samo
na mom stranom državljanstvu.
Looking after my future third national colleagues
graduating from the University of Zagreb, Faculty of
Medicine, I am also worried that since Croatia is lowering
the length of internship to five months13, this will not
comply with the time of training needed for compliance
with the EU Directive 2005/36/EC14. Therefore, for third
nationals, they are not qualified to practice after
attending and completing their medical education in
Croatia. In comparison, EU citizens, like Dr. Gassend,
have the right to a regular license once they finish their
five month internship and will be compliant in the EU.
S obzirom na to da je Hrvatska smanjila duljinu
stažiranja na 5 mjeseci, zabrinut sam i za druge kolege
državljane tredih zemalja koji zbog toga nede modi
udovoljiti direktivi EU-a. Dakle državljani tredih zemalja
nede modi stedi kvalifikacije za rad nakon završetka
studija u Hrvatskoj. Za razliku od njih, državljani zemalja
EU-a poput dr.Gassenda, imaju pravo na dobivanje
redovito licence nakon završetka 5 mjeseci stažiranja, te
de se modi zaposliti u cijeloj EU.
Conclusion
ZAKLJUČAK
With the restrictions from the government and the
global shortage of doctors, I cannot help but wonder why
there are bureaucratic roadblocks in this profession.
When I attended medical school, my thirst for
knowledge and need to be a person who can eventually
help society peaked. However after graduation, with the
lack of guidance, I was lost as a medical doctor and have
been fighting the system to let me work with patients. I
have the motivation to extend my knowledge and train
in Internal Medicine, allowing me to work with a wide
range of patients, diseases and make my impact on
society.
S obzirom na ograničenja od strane vlasti te na opdi
nedostatak liječnika u svijetu moram priznati da mi nije
jasno zašto postoje tolike birokratske zapreke u ovoj
profesiji. Pohađao sam studij medicine zbog želje za
znanjem i volje da potaknem pozitivne promjene u
društvu. Međutim nakon završetka studija trošim
vrijeme na borbu sa administracijom da mi omogudi da
radim kao liječnik sa pacijentima. Želim sticati nova
znanja te se usavršiti u području interne medicine koja bi
mi omogudila da radim sa različitim vrstama bolesti kod
pacijenata, te da tako ostavim svoj pozitivan utjecaj na
društvo.
Simply because of my nationality, I and many others in
my position cannot formally apply for any position or
find our direction in medicine. From all the articles and
regulations, the future of medical care in the EU can be
easily fixed by alleviating the differentiation between
nations and its borders.
Međutim, ja i mnogi slični meni nismo u mogudnosti
ostvariti nikakvu karijeru u medicine isključivo zato što
smo strani državljani tredih zemalja. Usprkos postojanju
brojnih pravila I propisa,bududnost medicinske skrbi u EU
se može lako popraviti ublažavanjem razlike između
različitih nacija i država.
-
Zavod za hitnu medicine Grada Zagreba).
What Can Be Done?
ŠTO SE MOŽE UČINITI?
Add an exemption to the ordinance that states that a
person who interns and passes the Croatian state
licensing examination can be granted a regular full
license to practice in Croatia. This is done in all other
countries in the European Union and the ability to
specialize is not dependent on nationality.
Treba se samo dodati aneks u pravilnik koji bi propisivao
da osoba koja je završila staž i položila državni stručni
ispit u Hrvatskoj može dobiti redovnu liječničku licencu
za samostalan rad u Hrvatskoj. To su ved napravile sve
druge zemlje članice EU-a, te se u njima mogudnost
specijalizacije ne uvjetuje nečijim državljanstvom.
Sources | Izvori
1. http://www.sabor.hr/Default.aspx?art=2408
2. http://www.mmc.gov.my/v1/docs/Jadual%20Kedua%2011-12-09.pdf
3. http://www.jutarnji.hr/kolaps-hitne-pomoci-zbog-vise-od-milijun-nepotrebnih-intervencija-u-2012--sve-stonije-hitno-od-sada-se-naplacuje--/1108313/
4. http://www.jutarnji.hr/ivica-babic--svima-koji-ne-vjeruju-dokazat-cemo-da-nam-fali-4500lijecnika/1112984/
5. http://www.jutarnji.hr/prica-hrvatskog-lijecnika-ivor-kovic---ja-sam-doktor-u-hitnoj-pomoci--odlazim-narad-u-veliku-britaniju-/1121484/
6. http://www.jutarnji.hr/otislo-je-vec-36-lijecnika-prvi-mjesec-hrvatske-u-europskoj-uniji/1121150/
7. http://narodne-novine.nn.hr/clanci/sluzbeni/2011_11_130_2600.html
8. http://www.propisi.hr/print.php?id=8228
9. http://www.hlk.hr/875
10. http://mse.mef.unizg.hr
11. http://www.kbcsm.hr
12. http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2013:158:0368:0375:EN:PDF
13. http://narodne-novine.nn.hr/clanci/sluzbeni/2013_09_114_2489.html
14. http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2005:255:0022:0142:en:PDF
Lista e-mailova
List of Received Emails
Denmark
Dear Dr. Azman
In order to work as a doctor in Denmark you must have an authorisation from the Danish Health and Medicines
Authority.
You will find useful information on their webpage: http://www.sst.dk/English.aspx
Best regards
Susanne Holsaae
Danish Medical Association
International Team
Department of Health Policy
Kristianiagade 12
DK – 2100 Copenhagen
Tel.: 35 44 85 00
Tel.: 35 44 82 23 (Direct)
Telefax.: 35 44 8505
E-mail: [email protected]
Web: http://www.laeger.dk
Norway
Dear Sir,
with reference to your E-mail.
To practise as a physician in Norway you will need to apply for a license (permanent or temporary). The application
should be sent to:
Norwegian Registration Authority for Health Personnel (SAK)
P.O. Box 8053 Dep
NO-0031 OSLO
Norway
Visiting address is Calmeyersgt. 1
Tel: +47 21 52 97 00
E-mail: [email protected]
See http://www.sak.no for information about application etc.
Medical practitioners who have received their education and training outside of Norway must satisfy a number of
specific requirements before they can be officially authorized to practise in Norway.
These requirements vary, for example according to the country in which the education and training took place.
For specialist approval, please contact:
The Norwegian Directorate of Health (Helsedirektoratet)
P.O. Box 7000 St. Olavs plass
NO-0130 OSLO
Norway
Visiting address is Universitetsgt. 2
Tel: +47 810 200 50
E-mail: [email protected]
See http://www.helsedirektoratet.no for further information.
Most vacancies are published in the Journal of The Norwegian Medical Association (Tidsskrift for Den norske
legeforening).
The journal is published three times monthly and the printed edition is in Norwegian language only.
A subscription to The Journal costs approximately NOK 2,500 a year. You will find more information on
http://tidsskriftet.no/english.
The vacancies are also available on http://www.legejobber.no/.
You may also take direct contact with hospital departments to find out if they have short term vacancies.
The Norwegian Medical Association cannot provide specific information regarding vacancies.
Usually there are many applicants to each hospital job and it is impossible to obtain a job for a non-Norwegian
speaking doctor. A fair command of the Norwegian language is necessary before you can be employed as a physician
in Norway.
The Norwegian Registration Authority for Health Personnel (mentioned above) will have information about language
requirements.
You might also visit the following web-sites to get further information about language courses:
http://www.uio.no/english/studies/summerschool/
http://www.studyinnorway.no/
You may also find useful information at NOKUT, which recognizes foreign higher education qualifications in response
to applications by individuals and provides information to holders of foreign qualifications
about Norway’s various mechanisms for the recognition and authorization of foreign qualifications:
NOKUT (Nasjonalt organ for kvalitet i utdanningen)
P.O. Box 1708 Vika
NO-0121 OSLO
Norway
Visiting address: Kronprinsens gate 9, 4th floor
Tel: +47 21 02 18 00
See http://www.nokut.no/en/ for more information.
Yours sincerely
The Norwegian Medical Association
Brit Torill Gutbier
Department of Professional Affairs
Section of education
Dear Brit Torill Gutbier,
Thank you for your prompt reply. Therefore the only thing hindering an application to Norway is my
command of the language. The question was based, because in Croatia, I am nearly fluent, but based
on my nationality, I cannot specialize. Is this the same as in Norway?
Thank you,
Dr. Azman
Dear Dr. Azman,
Doctors within Norway, no matter what nationality they have, can become
specialists. There is no restriction based on nationality.
But, yes, of course language fluency is required. Since you come from outside the
EU, you would need to apply work permits, residency permits and such. Please
contact:
Norwegian Directorate of Immigration
P.O.Box 8108 Dep
N-0032 Oslo
NORWAY
Tel: +47 23 35 15 00
Yours sincerely
The Norwegian Medical Association
Brit Torill Gutbier
Department of Professional Affairs
Section of education
United Kingdom
Dear Dr Azman
Thank you for your email about obtaining registration with a licence to practise.
As you are an International Medical Graduate (IMG) you will need to satisfy us that:
your English language skills meet the requirements set out in our guidance
you hold an acceptable primary medical qualification
your fitness to practise is not impaired
you have the necessary medical knowledge and skills.
You would demonstrate your medical knowledge and skills in one of the following ways:
a pass in the PLAB test
sponsorship by a GMC approved sponsor
possession of an acceptable postgraduate qualification
eligibility for entry onto the Specialist or GP Registers.
You can find more information about applying on our IMG web page. We strongly recommend you also read our
guidance for doctors thinking about applying for registration.
If your application is successful, you will be restricted to working in an approved practice setting (APS) until your first
revalidation. Please see our APS web page for more information.
If you would like to discuss this further, please reply to this email or call me.
Yours sincerely
Ian Quinn
Contact Centre Adviser
Registration and Revalidation Directorate
Telephone: 0161 923 6602 (+44 161 923 6602 from outside the UK)
Website: http://www.gmc-uk.org
Dear Mr. Quinn,
Thank you for your prompt reply. The question was based, because in Croatia, based on my
NATIONALITY, I cannot specialize. Is this the same as in the UK? Do I have rights for a full license or
just temporary (only valid during employment periods).
Thank you,
Dr. Azman
Dear Dr Azman
Thank you for your email regarding our rules on joining the specialist register.
There are no restrictions on nationality for joining the specialist register, subject to
fulfilling the adequate criteria to apply. You would also have to hold full registration
in order to be granted specialist registration.
http://www.gmcuk.org/doctors/registration_applications/Join_the_Specialist_Register_or_the_GP_R
egister.asp
If you would like to discuss this further, please reply to my email or call me on the
number below.
Yours sincerely
Duncan
Duncan Schofield
Contact Centre Adviser
Registration and Revalidation Directorate
Telephone: 0161 923 6602 (+44 161 923 6602 from outside the UK)
Website: http://www.gmc-uk.org
Germany
Dear Dr bin Azman,
Thank you for your email.
The German Medical Association (Bundesärztekammer) is the federation of the 17 state chambers of physicians in
Germany. As the central organisation in the system of medical self-governance, it represents the professional
interests of the 459, 021 physicians of Germany (data 31/12/2012).
In order to practise medicine in Germany, you will need to obtain a licence to practise medicine (Approbation = full
licence, Berufserlaubnis = temporary licence). Since the act on improving the appraisal and recognition of
professional qualifications gained abroad (Gesetz zur Verbesserung der Feststellung und Anerkennung im Ausland
erworbener Berufsqualifikationen – “Anerkennungsgesetz”) came into force on 1 April 2012, it has been possible for
all applicants to apply for a full licence to practise medicine regardless of their nationality. The competent
authorities responsible for issuing the licence to practice medicine are the state health authorities of the individual
federal states (Oberste Landesgesundheitsbehörden). You can find a list of addresses of the state health authorities
on our website: http://www.baek.de/downloads/Approbationsbehoerden20110713.pdf
The relevant legal documents relating to admission to the medical profession may be found under the following link
(Licensing Regulations for Physicians – Approbationsordnung, Federal Medical Regulation – Bundesärzteordnung):
http://www.baek.de/page.asp?his=1.101
The state health authorities compare basic medical qualifications and medical licences gained abroad with the
provisions contained within the Licensing Regulations for Physicians in order to assess their equivalency. If foreign
qualifications are not deemed to be equivalent then it is decided whether disparities in medical training can be
compensated for by relevant professional experience. If this is not the case then applicants must carry out a
proficiency test (those with medical qualifications from outside the EU) or an aptitude test (those with medical
qualifications from an EU Member State). Proof of sufficient German language skills to at least level B2
(intermediate) of the common European framework of reference is generally required.
Please contact the relevant state health authority for further information on the specific details of equivalency
assessment, the documents required to make an application, proficiency and aptitude tests, and the changes to the
legal situation as a result of the Anerkennungsgesetz.
All physicians are mandatory members of the state chambers of physicians (Landesärztekammer) of the federal state
where they work. As corporations under public law, the state chambers of physicians are in charge of the
administration of all matters related to specialty training in Germany. The content and periods of specialty training
for each field are set out in the specialty training regulations of the state chambers of physicians. You may find the
addresses of hospitals and physicians entitled to conduct speciality medical training under the heading
“Weiterbildung” on the websites of the state chambers of physicians. For a list of websites and contact details see:
http://www.baek.de/page.asp?his=0.8.5585
You may also find useful information on specialty training on our website (in German):
http://www.baek.de/page.asp?his=1.128
As the bodies responsible for specialty training, the state chambers of physicians are also responsible for the
recognition of periods of specialty training carried out abroad, as well as specialty medical qualifications from
abroad. Membership of a state chamber of physicians is a prerequisite for the assessment and possible recognition
of specialty training qualifications gained abroad.
Detailed information regarding visa regulations may be found on the website of the Federal Foreign Office:
http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/sid_2DD8DD29A31B250F715C9217F19121A6/EN/Startseite_node.html
We hope this information has been useful to you.
Best regards,
Rosie Ellis
Sachbearbeiterin / Programme Assistant
Dear Ms. Rosie Ellis,
Thank you for your prompt reply. The question was based, because in Croatia, based on my
NATIONALITY, I cannot specialize. Is this the same as in Germany? Do I have rights for a full license or
just temporary (only valid during employment periods).
Thank you,
Dr. Azman
Dear Dr Azman,
Thank you for your email. As mentioned in my previous email, since the act on
improving the appraisal and recognition of professional qualifications gained abroad
(Gesetz zur Verbesserung der Feststellung und Anerkennung im Ausland erworbener
Berufsqualifikationen – “Anerkennungsgesetz”) came into force in Germany on 1
April 2012, it has been possible for all applicants to apply for a full licence to
practise medicine regardless of their nationality.
A license to practise is a prerequisite for becoming a member of a state chamber of
physicians and carrying out specialty training (all physicians are mandatory members
of the state chambers of physicians (Landesärztekammer) of the federal state where
they work). These are the bodies responsible for all matters pertaining to
specialisation. For a list of websites and contact details see:
http://www.baek.de/page.asp?his=0.8.5585
As the German Medical Association is not the competent authority for granting the
license to practice, we cannot assess individual cases. Please contact the relevant
state health authority for further information on the specific details of changes to
the legal situation as a result of the Anerkennungsgesetz. You can find a list of
addresses of the state health authorities on our website:
http://www.baek.de/downloads/Approbationsbehoerden20110713.pdf
I hope this answers your question.
Kind regards,
Rosie Ellis
Austria
Dear Mr Muhammad Zeitsev bin Azman, MD BSc,
I regret to inform you that one of the prerequisites to engage in a medical activity for training purposes in Austria is
either EEA citizenship, or a specific valid residence permit or residence title in Austria according to the Austrian
settlement residence act (NAG) or recognized right of asylum or subsidiary protection status.
EEA and non – EEA Member Country nationals being granted equal treatment having graduated from a Medical
University outside of the EEA have to have their medical degree recognised as equivalent with Austrian standards
by an Austrian University. Nostrification means the recognition of a third-country medical degree in Austria and it
usually means that further exams have to be passed at university in Austria in order to obtain the recognition.
However, this process of nostrification is purely within the competence of Austrian medical universities (Vienna,
Graz or Innsbruck). Further information regarding medical activity in Austria can be found in our information leaflet
for EEA-citizens and non – EEA Member Country nationals being granted equal treatment.
Foreign medical doctors who do not fulfill the above mentioned prerequisites only have the possibility to apply for
an authorization according to § 8 par 5 or §35 of the Austria Medical Act (see attached leaflets).
§ 8 par. 5 medical act – Postgraduate training undergone by foreign doctors without EU-nationality
If you apply for an authorization according to § 8,5 postgraduate training may be undergone in any specialty (that
means 4 years of the main course of specialization) or in any subspecialty (if applicant has a qualification of a
specialist doctor).
An authorization according to § 8, 5 can only be granted if the costs are born by the home country or a supranational
organization. Any funding by private persons or institutes is impossible. The certificate the medical doctor will obtain
upon completion of training however does not constitute a basis for claiming the right to medical practice in Austria.
§ 35 medical act – Medical activites for educational purposes, undertaken by foreign doctors
An authorization according to § 35 is for educational purposes only and may only be extended for a period of up to
one year, respectively until the completion of a scientific paper. The maximum extension of this period is three
years. A new authorisation may be granted not earlier than five years after the date of expiration of the prior
authorisation.
Kind regards,
Irene Podest
Mag. Irene Podest
Österreichische Ärztekammer
Internationales
A-1010 Wien, Weihburggasse 10-12
Tel: +43 1 51406 – 3932 (fax – 63932)
Odgovor iz Ministarstva unutarnjih poslova
Reply From the Ministry of Interior
Peticija
Petition
http://goo.gl/YdYZ9d
Recipient:
Dr. Hrvoje Minigo, Dr. Rajko Ostojić, Mr. Ranko Ostojić, and dr. Ivica Babić
Letter:
Greetings,
Please allow third national doctors, who passed the CROATIAN state licensing
examination, to obtain a full license and right to specialize.
Signatures
Name
Location
Date
Muhammad Azman
Zagreb, Croatia
2013-10-23
Yeop Azman
Zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Tomi Kovac
Montreal, Canada
2013-10-23
Tatiana Azman
Batang Kali, Malaysia
2013-10-23
Robert Fussi
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Vinko Triplat
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Hrvoje Butina
Zagreb, Croatia
2013-10-23
Branimir Lasničko
Zagreb,
2013-10-23
Jean-Loup Gassend
Lausanne,
2013-10-23
Franko Haller
Samobor, Croatia
2013-10-23
Marina Kos
Zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Lidija Bokan
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Suncana Alvarado
Los Angeles, CA, United States
2013-10-23
lana kos
Zagreb, Croatia
2013-10-23
Ena Meniga
Zagreb, Croatia
2013-10-23
Luka Djulabić
Zagreb, Gra, Croatia
2013-10-23
Tomislav Bogdanic
Zagreb, Croatia
2013-10-23
Stefan Smogavc
Zagreb, AL, Croatia
2013-10-23
Divo Ljubicic
10000, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Marina Sopta
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Diana Donigi
Australia
2013-10-23
Barbara Kolbah
Rijeka,
2013-10-23
Barbara Vanić
Slavonski Brod, Bro, Croatia
2013-10-23
Mario Zrilic
Zadar,
2013-10-23
Smita Thoduka
Zagreb, Croatia
2013-10-23
Marija Kusulja
Zagreb,
2013-10-23
Stjepan Glibo
Zagreb,
2013-10-23
Jeremy Yung
Hong Kong,
2013-10-23
irena sokolovic
Zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Tamara Janjić
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Name
Location
Date
Lora Rajić
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Marina Capak
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Mercedes Firenza
Zagreb, Gra, Croatia
2013-10-23
nasser chothia
zagreb,
2013-10-23
Giulian Hamitaj
Zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Senka Šprem
Zagreb, Gra, Croatia
2013-10-23
Matija Cvitković
Karlovac, Kar, Croatia
2013-10-23
jasna kolbah
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Hrvoje Simic
Rijeka,
2013-10-23
Nenad Neskovic
Osijek, Osi, Croatia
2013-10-23
Ana Sobota
Zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Ivan Beluškov
Sesvete, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Rafael Astudillo
Stockholm,
2013-10-23
Vedrana Gašpić Zidar
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Matija Raos
Zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Mia Stanisic
Zagreb, Croatia
2013-10-23
Romana Prskalo
Zagreb, Croatia
2013-10-23
Nikola Blajic
Köln, NRW, Germany
2013-10-23
Daniella Sankovic
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Tobias Stridbeck
Zagreb, Croatia
2013-10-23
Lenart Zore
Ljubljana, Slovenia
2013-10-23
Tonje Nordstrand
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Christopher Lambers
Zagreb, Croatia
2013-10-23
raissa khirddine
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Latica Friedrich
Zagreb, Gra, Croatia
2013-10-23
Berenice BRUC
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Volpé Thomas
Zagreb,
2013-10-23
Ivor Forsek
Zagreb,
2013-10-23
Tomislav Perko
Zagreb,
2013-10-23
MAJA MUSIĆ
VARAŽDIN, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Goran Kokorus
Zagreb,
2013-10-23
Monika Viskovic
Split, Spl, Croatia
2013-10-23
Name
Location
Date
Ružica Nogolica
Zadar,
2013-10-23
Tea Salai
Beli Manastir, Osj, Croatia
2013-10-23
Bernardina Ćerlek
Metković, Dub, Croatia
2013-10-23
Jurica Belle
Dugo Selo, Zag, Croatia
2013-10-23
tihomir Lacko
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Gordana Hajduk
Varaždin, Var, Croatia
2013-10-23
Ivan Kusić
Rijeka, Pri, Croatia
2013-10-23
Robert Petković
Belišće, Osj, Croatia
2013-10-23
irena adžić
Požega, Pož, Croatia
2013-10-23
Ana Istvanovic
Zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Antun Han
Đakovo, Osi, Croatia
2013-10-23
yasmine atoui
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Martina Goricki
Virje, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Maja Devčić
Rijeka, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Branimir Klobucar
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Ivan Šoštarić
Sisak, Sis, Croatia
2013-10-23
vlatka vuksic
zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Andrej Papesa
Murter, Šib, Croatia
2013-10-23
valentina ivancevic
Zagreb,
2013-10-23
Samra Begovic
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Elvis Horozovic
Umag, Ist, Croatia
2013-10-23
Ivan Zvonimir Matić
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Sara Mileta
Zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Franjo Đolo
Mostar, Fed, Bosnia and Herzegovina
2013-10-23
Lidija Miljas
Cavtat,
2013-10-23
Barbara Benčić
Zagreb, Gra, Croatia
2013-10-23
Martina Tanšek
Kraljevac, Croatia
2013-10-23
Katarina Batista
Slavonski Brod, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Monika Praljak
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Biserka Knezic
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Rasa Vizek
Zagreb,
2013-10-23
Višnjica Movrić
Novska, Croatia
2013-10-23
Name
Location
Date
Filip Kopanica
Krk, Pri, Croatia
2013-10-23
Marin Zovko
Zagreb, Gra, Croatia
2013-10-23
Mirjana Komljenović
ZAGREB,
2013-10-23
Marijana Mustra
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Zoran Marković
Zagreb, Croatia
2013-10-23
Jesmin J
London, , United Kingdom
2013-10-23
jurka jeran
Ljubljana, Lju, Slovenia
2013-10-23
Ivana Podrug
Solin, Spl, Croatia
2013-10-23
Marko Štrlek
Umag,
2013-10-23
visnja kljajic
Zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Jasna Boršić Jasna Boršić
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
John Lodder
Zagreb Croatia,
2013-10-23
Dominik Praljak
Stavanger, Rog, Norway
2013-10-23
Veronika Lukić
Koprivnica, Kop, Croatia
2013-10-23
Nina Barbić
Zagreb, Gra, Croatia
2013-10-23
Maja Kokić
Marjančaci, Osj, Croatia
2013-10-23
Marta Maljković
Zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Marko Mravunac
Jastrebarsko, Zag, Croatia
2013-10-23
Katerina Bakran
Poreč, Ist, Croatia
2013-10-23
Lucija Beljan
Zagreb, Croatia
2013-10-23
Martina Čapek
Daruvar,
2013-10-23
Manuela Kaniški
Varaždin, Var, Croatia
2013-10-23
Antonija Dzijan
Beč, Beč, Austria
2013-10-23
Petra Novak
Varaždin, Var, Croatia
2013-10-23
Ivana Ratković
Nova Kapela, Bro, Croatia
2013-10-23
Sanela Besic
Chicago, IL, United States
2013-10-23
mario muftić
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Tanja Čujić
Zagreb, City of Zagreb, Croatia,
2013-10-23
Dina Koštan
Croatia
2013-10-23
Marina Vosika
Zagreb,
2013-10-23
vesna stefanovic
Makarska, Spl, Croatia
2013-10-23
Max GASSEND
France
2013-10-23
Name
Location
Date
Sylvain Perret
Lyon, RA, France
2013-10-23
Damir Katusic
osijek,
2013-10-23
Asmir Junuzovic
Zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-23
Goran Krnjak
Črečan, Croatia
2013-10-23
ratko grgicevic
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Mario Brljak
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Oxana Semenova
Jastrebarsko, Zag, Croatia
2013-10-23
ivan LIVIĆ
Zagreb, City of Zagreb, Croatia,
2013-10-23
Luka Flegar
Germany
2013-10-23
Irena Rešković
Slavonski Brod, Bro, Croatia
2013-10-23
Rana Tahir Rasool
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-23
Monika Franjić
Požega, Pož, Croatia
2013-10-23
Juraj Gjergja
Zagreb,
2013-10-24
Martina Pelaic
Zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-24
Renea Vlatković
Ploče, Dub, Croatia
2013-10-24
Andrea Lovrisa
Zagreb,
2013-10-24
Martina Paleka
Croatia
2013-10-24
Aiffel Azman
Kuala Lumpur, Fed, Malaysia
2013-10-24
Marija Tresioglavic
Zadar,
2013-10-24
Wouter Groen
Groningen,
2013-10-24
Iva Lipović
Rijeka, Pri, Croatia
2013-10-24
Zvonimir Novak
Zagreb,
2013-10-24
Elizabeta Vučičević
Županja, Vuk, Croatia
2013-10-24
Nives Gotovac
Zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-24
Nedjeljka Salopek
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-24
Pål Ramberg
Oslo, Norway,
2013-10-24
Larisa Mekis
Parenzo, Reg, Croatia
2013-10-24
Darija Velan
Zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-24
Mesud Peco
Sisak, Croatia
2013-10-24
jasmina nikić
zagreb,
2013-10-24
Tomislav Hajduk
Zagreb, Croatia
2013-10-24
Matija Pavlović
Zabok, Kra, Croatia
2013-10-24
Name
Location
Date
Andrea Špoljarec
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-24
Morana Vouk
Zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-24
Snjezana Crnogorac
Zagreb, , Croatia
2013-10-24
Neven Barsic
Zagreb, Croatia
2013-10-24
Filip Hofer
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-24
IVAN FRANKOVIĆ
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-25
Nikolina Ćerlek
Zagreb, Gra, Croatia
2013-10-25
Ljiljana Hlupic
Zagreb, Gra, Croatia
2013-10-25
Nena Sudar
Zagreb,
2013-10-25
Alan House
Cary, NC, United States
2013-10-25
Ana Gavranic
Rijeka, Croatia
2013-10-25
Tutu Dutta
Zagreb, Cit, Croatia
2013-10-25
Lizawati Abdul Aziz
Bintulu, Sar, Malaysia
2013-10-25
ana viskovic
Croatia
2013-10-25
Amanda Lam
Vancouver, BC, Canada
2013-10-26
Juan Miguel Vilhar
Zadar, Zad, Croatia
2013-10-27
Miran Miljak
Split,
2013-10-27