The St. Mark Bells November 2014 Weekly Events at St. Mark 5:30pm Saturday spoken worship 9:00am Sunday traditional service 10:20am Sunday School 10:30am TrebleBells 7:00pm Wed Trinity Choir 9:00am Thurs Sewing Group 10:30am-12pm Friday Bible Study Preschool 4вЂ™s Mon, Wed, Fri 3вЂ™s Tues, Thurs Counseling Office Various times NovemberвЂ™s Coming Events Nov 2 All Saints Sunday Worship and Music Mtg Nov 3 Bingo at Utz Terrace Nov 4 вЂњSt. Mark EatsвЂќ 6pm El'Rancho Elm Ave Nov 6 Evangelism Mtg 7pm Nov 8-15 Church Clean-up Week Nov 9 Dedication of Quilts Sunday Confirmation Class 10:20 Nov 11 HVAC Task Force 6pm Property Comm 7pm Nov 12 Newsletter Article Deadline Nov 16 Felix Hell Concert 3pm Nov 17 Finance Comm Mtg 7pm SOS Support Group Nov 19 Preschool Comm Mtg 1pm Nov 20 Fellowship Comm 5:30pm Nov 21 Assemble Dec. "Bells" Nov 23 "Adopt-A-PlatoonвЂќ Sunday School Project Confirmation Class 10:20 Nov 25 Congregation Council 7pm Nov 26 Community Thanksgiving Service at Ch. Of Brethren 7:30 Nov 27 & 28 Office Closed for Thanksgiving Holiday PastorвЂ™s PonderingвЂ™s вЂњO give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; for his steadfast love lasts foreverвЂќ1 Chron 16:34 Dear Thankful St. Markians, As the days get darker and shorter, the cold winds blow and we know it wonвЂ™t be long before we have snow and icy days. But even in that bleakness of winter, in the dark times of our lives, we have a hope that is the light of God. We look to the one who shines over all darkness, over all despair, over all worries, our Lord and Savior. And so November is a time to remember to give thanks. Thanks to God who promises us a good harvest, a safe winter, and that spring and new life will come again. As part of my prayers, I give thanks for you all. Our council has begun to look forward to the future. What does next year look like? What about three years, what will be our membership, our ages, our income, or discipleship. When we start to look forward we get worried and scared. But truthfully these are good discussions to have. It is exciting to be thinking about the future, how we can best be serving God and doing his work as his disciples in this place next year or in three or five years. With God anything is possible and if we trust in God that impossibility will become our reality. Give thanks for these Godly opportunities, these joys, these challenges that are set before us today. Give Thanks! Faithfully submitted, Pastor Kirk Griffin Council Happenings 10/28/2014 п‚· Council heard from Lynn Peterson about an opportunity to give money back to church through electric deregulation. Council voted to include this in the November bulletins. п‚· Following PastorвЂ™s statistical report, council discussed and approved giving a space to Recovery and Wellness Inc. to have meetings twice a month in our building. Council voted to add a marriage, union and blessing policy to the policy manual. Pastor reminded council that the nominations committee needs to begin working (they need 4 council members, 1 auditor, 2 delegates to Synod, and 2 nomination members.) п‚· Council was asked to review the 12 month designated needs calendar for 2015. п‚· Pastor, Bob Kerr and Ron Wentz reported on workshop attended concerning revitalization of congregations and that an ELCA Mission Developer will work with us to guide us in our next step, starting Jan. 18th, 2015, when he comes to preach and meet with council. п‚· TreasurerвЂ™s report was discussed and noted as being in the negative, so the last two months of the year we will really need to stress this concern. п‚· The 2015 Proposed Budget was introduced and Council voted to recommend it to the congregation for adoption at the December meeting. п‚· A discussion was held on discipleship, building, growth, evangelism, our future and the positive aspects of our church. In Our Congregation November Worship Helpers November 2 All Saints Sunday Acolyte: John Peterson Asstng Mnstr: Hollis Long Bell Ringer: Thomas Long Comm. Assts: Nancy Bittinger Shellene Griffin Robert Kerr Susan O'Brien Worship Assts: Darbe Bailey Janet Mondorff Barb Wentz CPIC: Ron Wentz November 9 22nd Sunday after Pentecost Acolyte: Brenna Yingling Asstng Mnstr: Pennie Spalding Bell Ringer: Andy Warehime Comm. Assts: Jane Long Peg Martin Need Volunteer Worship Assts: Elaine Brown Need Volunteer Sally Hershey Susan OвЂ™Brien CPIC: Carol Reese November 16 23rd Sunday after Pentecost Acolyte: Madlyn Farley Lector: Linda Bolin Bell Ringer: Glenn Mummert Comm. Assts: Linda Bolin Jeff Kindschuh Chris Kindschuh Emma Kindschuh Worship Assts: Betty Bolin Judy Bolin Sam Wise Marie Wise CPIC: Rick Pado Comm. Assts: Justin Garman Doug Greenholt Susan OвЂ™Brien Worship Assts: Sally Hershey Sandy Haymaker Arlene Little Jeff Little CPIC: Chris Kindschuh November 30 First Sunday of Advent Acolyte: Derek Eline Asstng Mnstr: Martha Lippy Bell Ringer: William Sterner Comm. Assts: Nancy Bittinger Hollis Long William Sterner Barbara Watson Worship Assts: Justin Eline William Leppo Wayne Lippy Barbara Wentz CPIC: Ron Wentz Chancel Care for November Mary Bowman Chet Peters William and Linda Sterner September Worship Attendance st 1 Week 2nd Week 3rd Week 4th Week 5th Week TOTAL` 2013 117 121 124 100 128 590 (5) 2014 108 118 99 111 N/A 436 (4) September TreasurerвЂ™s Report November 23 Christ the King Acolyte: Kyle Garman Asstng Mnstr: Diane Greenholt Bell Ringer: Robert Kerr -2- Monthly Did You Knows Worship Helpers Needed: Did you know that for each Sunday, acolytes, bell ringers, lectors or assisting ministers, and communion or worship assistants, are always needed? Please help by signing up in advance on the bulletin board in the narthex or by contacting the church office. Thanks To and From -From York Habitat for Humanity thanking us for allowing them to use St. MarkвЂ™s for the dedication of the Sheely home on Kennedy Court, October 4, 2014. The Family of Linda Shaffer wishes to thank everyone who was praying, with us and for us, during her five week battle with cancer. For someone who wasnвЂ™t sick, she was diagnosed one Saturday and five weeks later she was in Heaven. We were thankful for all of you who came to be with us at her service вЂ“ it meant a lot to us. Pastor Kirk did a great service for us. Thank you all!вЂ¦.from Elaine Brown and Ralph and Kris Thoman, beloved sister, son, and daughter-in-law of Linda A. Shaffer who passed away on Saturday, October 18. Deaths: It Is with deepest sympathy that we grieve the loss of Betty Bartell and Barbara Olson on Thursday, October 16 and Richard L. Snyder, September 29, who have entered GodвЂ™s eternal kingdom upon their deaths. In our hearts and minds we pray for their families and friends that they may be comforted in the knowledge of the sure and confident promise of the resurrection of new life in Christ Jesus our Lord. November Commitment to Hanover Council of Churches PAL Program: Ketchup, Coffee Creamer, Coffee, Chicken Broth, Beef Broth, Snack Bags, Sandwich Bags Changing Lives Shelter: Blankets (Twin), Dish Soap, Dishwasher Soap, Cleaning Supplies, Iced Tea Mix, Drink Mix, Coffee, and Ziploc Bags (sandwich size) Clothing Bank: King size sheets, Queen size sheets, Family-size Toiletries: Shampoo & Conditioner, Razors and Shaving Cream. RuthвЂ™s Harvest вЂ“ All single serving please! Complete EntreГ©s, Complete Mini Meals HACC Bingo Prizes new or gently used items PAL Team #1 - November 23: Team Effort: Sharon Bish, Melanie Brady, Emily Brodbeck, Shellene Griffin, Nini Houck, & Nancy Sandruck Anyone interested in helping with any one of our alternating three PAL teams at the Hanover Area Council of Churches on the fourth Sunday of each month, can contact the church office at 637-8904. Prayer Requests from HACC: As we all know the power of prayer and as we keep St. Mark members and friends in our prayers, HACC also requests that we pray for their ministries in the following weeks of this month: Nov 2 HACC Ministerium; Nov 9 Ministries Board; Nov 16 PAL Ministry; Nov 23 Our Community Thanksgiving Service; and Nov 30 Public Worship Committee. HACC is excited to once again team up with HossвЂ™s Steak and Sea House to raise money for a very worthy cause. Please consider visiting the HossвЂ™s at the corner of Eisenhower Drive and Carlisle Street in Hanover on Sunday, November 16. HossвЂ™s will then donate 20% or 25% (dependent on total sales) to the Council of Churches. The email copies found on the welcoming table in our narthex need to be presented when ordering. You can also request one by contacting our church office (637-8904). Designated Needs Offerings: St. MarkвЂ™s monthly offering for designated needs gives us an opportunity as a congregation to support specific domestic and international needs which are pre-determined by our council each year. NovemberвЂ™s offering benefits New Hope Ministries where people can go if they are hungry, lost their job, or needed a little extra help. To learn more about how they are helping our neighbors in need, please visit www.nhm-pa.org. For your donations, please use the вЂњotherвЂќ category on your regular offering envelope or note November designated need -3- or New Hope Ministries on the memo line of your check. Please remember however that, whenever a donation is made on the вЂњotherвЂќ line that does not have a written designation, it will automatically be given to the ministry fund designated for that month. Christmas Gift Tree has been placed in our narthex with gift tags for adult and childrenвЂ™s gifts to be given to New Hope Ministries for their вЂњChristmas Blessings ExpressвЂќ program. These gift tags range from childrenвЂ™s toys to adult items to household goods. The tags are just suggested items that are needed; you also can donate other items that you think might be a good gift. In December, parents in need will get a chance to pick out items for their children, while at the same time the children will pick out items they can give to their parents. All items donated need to be unwrapped and returned to the church by November 30th. So check out the gift tree soon! Gobble, Gobble, Gobble!: Thanksgiving and Christmas are right around the corner and New Hope Ministries needs approximately 5,000 turkeys to help feed our local families. Please consider donating a turkey or your free turkey coupon from your local grocer to New Hope by contacting their local center (529 Carlisle Street, Hanover) at 717-6983365 for more details on how you can help. Thank you!! Electrifying: How many of you use electric? If you do then you have electric through Met-Ed, and you pay your bill through Met-Ed. But there is a way that you can pay your regular bill with Met-Ed, use the same electric that you have always used, but at the same time save money and give back to the church $4.00 a month. How you might wonder. Well this month we will tell you - each week you will learn a bit more in the bulletins, and on November 23rd, we will have time after church to learn more. Watch for it in the weekly bulletins. Felix Hell celebrates 1914 Pipe Organ: World- renowned organist, Felix Hell will present a concert at St. Mark Lutheran Church on Sunday, November 16th at 3PM. This spring Felix recorded a CD on St. MarkвЂ™s historic organ and the release date is early next year. A preorder form for that CD will be available at the concert. Many of his other recordings will also be on sale. For those who do not realize it, the organ we enjoy today has been in service to the congregation for 100 years, with upgrades in 1958, 1995 and 2010. Felix has been part of our family for many years. Please join us to celebrate another milestone of your church. Admission to this November 16th concert is $10 for adults and $5 for students and seniors. If you wish to make your reservation for this historic event please call the St. Mark office at 637-8904 or Mike Noble at 880-8069. Tickets will also be available at the door. A meet-the-artist reception will be held after the concert in the church parlor. "A NO Yard and NO Craft SaleвЂќ: Due to unforeseen circumstances the previously advertised Yard/Craft Sale will not be held as a fundraiser for SafeHome. Instead we will be having a NO Yard and NO Craft Sale: which means in place of having tables of items and crafts we will be supporting SafeHome with donations from St Mark families of $5 to $10. There is a box located in our narthex for your donations or please feel free to mail any donations to our church office. Checks are payable to St. Mark Lutheran Church. Thank you for helping St. Mark support SafeHome in this important outreach to HanoverвЂ™s victims of domestic violence. Next year our Social Ministry Committee will go back to holding a вЂњSoup and Bake Sale" to benefit SafeHome. -Please remember the victims of violence in a moment of prayer. Advent Knit Tree: Our Social Ministry Committee would like to remind us that for many years now our members and/or friends have been knitting or supplying us with warm mittens, gloves, scarves and socks for a tree which will be placed in our narthex later this month. Please keep in mind these should be new as they are given to school children and adults in the Hanover community. -4- "St. Mark EatsвЂќ: Besides our 6pm, Tuesday, November 4 event at ElвЂ™ Rancho, 506 Elm Avenue in Hanover, our fellowship committee has now proposed the following for over the next few months: 12/2 Campus Inn, 1/6 Hibachi Grill & 2/3 Dutch Country. For your convenience, sign-up sheets are always posted in the church narthex; wishing to sign up by phone, please call the church. Church Clean-up Week: Too busy to make a Saturday Cleanup event. Your property committee is dedicating the entire week of November 8th thru November 15th for outside clean-up of church grounds. Stop by anytime and work as you are able in one of the much needed project areas: trim bushes, pull thistles from ivy, trim ivy off our church walls, pull weeds in flower beds, pull ivy from the trees in the parking lot, pull grass growing around the light poles, pull weeds growing in parking lot and sidewalk cracks, pick up sticks and branches, rake leaves out of ivy or flower beds, clear outside basement steps of debris, or anything you see we could use. All trimmings can go directly into the dumpster. Tools, rakes, brooms, and equipment can be provided, just stop in for assistance. Our November Sunday School Project is Adopt-aPlatoon. We will fill stockings with gifts and goodies for soldiers during the Sunday school hour on November 23. Items needed include holiday candy, socks, hot chocolate or cider packs, hand-held games, word puzzles, holiday pens or pencils, travel-size toiletries or just use your imagination. A collection box for your donations will be placed in the narthex. In order for the project to obtain any possible Thrivent reimbursement, please save your receipts and bring them along to church and put them in the receipts box on top of the table in the narthex. Thank you! 2014 Holiday Decorations For this yearвЂ™s decorations, we will once again be hanging 22вЂќ wreaths at a cost of $17 each and one 36вЂќ wreath at a cost of approximately $45. Poinsettias will be available to decorate the chancel on Christmas Eve at a cost of $10. Also a tree with Stars made by Diana Weaver representing contributions to the ELCA World Hunger Appeal will once again stand in our narthex. Anyone contributing $5 to World Hunger may take a star from the tree at any time after our Christmas Eve service. To sponsor any of the above in memory or honor of our loved ones, envelopes will be available in the church pew racks or call the church office (637-8904). In order to place our poinsettia order in advance, we would appreciate all orders by December 8 but we must establish an absolute deadline date of Monday, December 15 for placing your order. Poinsettias can also be picked up after our Christmas Eve service or any time that following week keeping in mind however that the church office will be closed for an additional day on Friday, December 26. Preschool News Preschool Yard/Bake Sale in September was a huge success! We raised $739.82 for our school and students on that day. We wish to thank all our members and friends for donating items for the sale including some great bake sale items and soup. A most sincere thank you for the monetary donations to St. Mark Preschool as well. To enhance their learning experiences, the donation will be used to purchase items for the children to use in the school classrooms. We wish to take this opportunity to thank everyone for your continued support of our preschool. Preschool A+ Rewards: GIANT A+ Rewards вЂ“ NEW this year! If you signed up before, you do NOT need to register again this year If you shop at GIANT and have a BONUS CARD look at the bottom of your receipt. It should say A+ School Rewards and list the number of points received in your current visit and the total earned for the current month. If you do NOT see this info. on your receipt, you need to register. You can do this by signing the form on the table in our narthex and Martha Lippy will take care of signing you up. The program this year runs from October 5 to March 22, 2015. All money received will be added to our Scholarship Fund. WonвЂ™t you please help us? REMINDER: Signing up for A+ School Rewards does not take points away from Gas Rewards or Turkey Certificates or any other Giant promotions. -5- CAMPBELLвЂ™S labels for education is another way to help our preschool get FREE educational items for our students. We do NOT need the entire label so please take the time to cut out only the UPC code as shown to the right of the following label example: Local CROP Hunger Walk: Thanks to all who participated in the October 19 Walk against hunger. In addition to their sponsors, our walkers included: Linda Bolin, John and Jenene Conrad, Shirley Hippensteel and her daughter (Sandy Dubs and friend, Chad Rosa), Martha and Wayne Lippy and grandsons, Justin and Derek Eline, Nancy Sandruck, Diana Weaver, and Steve, Kim, Courtney, and Bethany Zinn. Watch for a complete follow-up report (including donations placed in THE JUG on our narthex table) in our weekly service bulletin announcements sometime soon and/or in our December newsletter. GIVE THANKS: This year's community-wide Thanksgiving Eve Service, sponsored by the Hanover Area Council of Churches, will be at Hanover Church of the Brethren, 601 Wilson Avenue, Hanover on Wednesday, November 26 at 7:30pm. An offering will be taken of food items for PAL as well as a monetary offering to support the ministries of the Council. In Our Community LSS (Lutheran Social Services) wants us to be aware of fraudulent fundraising phone calls from individuals stating they are representatives of LSS. If you or anyone you know receives a call from anyone claiming to be raising money for LSS or any of its programs and services, please remember that the foundation currently does not solicit funds via telephone or raise funds on behalf of any other organization or cause. We are also reminded to never give the caller any personal information (names, addresses, phone numbers or anything that could be used to identify you). End the call as quickly as possible, immediately write down the date and time of the call, whether or not the voice was that of a male or female and if there were any distinguishing characteristics to the callerвЂ™s voice. In addition, if a phone number appears on your caller ID, please note that number also and then report this information to local law enforcement as soon as possible. Kirchenwald to host annual Winter Youth Retreat for Third вЂ“ Ninth Graders Enjoy Kirchenwald in the Winter! Play broom hockey and other games on the frozen pond. Have fun sledding, playing snow soccer and other winter games. Creative Bible studies and worship experiences led by our summer camp counselors are an important part of this retreat. Meet new friends and catch up with your summer camp friends. Other indoor and outdoor activities may be included, as the weather dictates. Registration $135. To get more information, see their website or call 717-677-8211. Advent Family Retreat: ItвЂ™s so easy for us to get caught up in the busyness of day-to-day living. When you throw in the added excitement of preparing for Christmas (baking, shopping, concerts, decorating, parties, etc.), Advent, a season meant for prayerful thoughts and reflection, can quickly devolve into a whirlwind of tinsel, bows and credit card bills. This December, set aside some time for your family to think about keeping Advent. Lutheran Camping Corporation of Central PA will be exploring traditional and new ways of waiting and watching for the birth of Christ, even while the flurry of contemporary culture swirls about us. We are invited to join them on December 1213, at NawakwaвЂ™s Zinn-Tozer Lodge. Registration is available on the camping corporationвЂ™s website: LutheranCamping.org. -6- вЂњWhen Grief Colors the HolidaysвЂќ: As the holiday season rapidly approaches, we are reminded that, while this is a celebrative time for many, there are large numbers of people for whom the holidays pose difficult emotional and spiritual problems in regard to grief and loss. That being said, a free program is being offered by Spiritual Care вЂ“ WellSpan Health and presented by the Rev. Dr. Ted L. Trout-Landen on Monday, December 1 from 7-8pm at York Hospital, Medical Education Pavilion 1st Floor, Classroom 10 A/B. Please call: 812-3039 for reservations. Seating is limited вЂ“ Parking is free. Free Flu Shots for all uninsured or underinsured individuals who are age 18 and older are offered by the Hanover Area Council of Churches on Sat. November 22 from 9am to ? at New Hope Ministries, 529 Carlisle St. (Red Cross Bldg.) in Hanover. And will also be available during the regularly scheduled FREE Medical Clinics on Nov. 4 and 18 from 10:30am to Noon at the Hanover Area Council of Churches, 136 Carlisle Street as long as supplies last. Clinics also include both blood pressure and glucose screenings. For further information, please contact the Hanover Area Council of Churches, 633-6353. Mark Your Calendars now for Feed-A-Friend marathon on 1280AM WHVR December 3 thru 5 where you can call in and make a pledge for New Hope Ministries. NOVEMBER 2014 Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday 1 5:30pm Spoken Liturgy of Word and Sacrament All Saints Sunday 2 (Daylight Savings Time Ends at 2am so set your clocks back) 9:00am Holy Communion Worship Service 10:20am Sunday School Luther - The Movie Presentation in Church Parlor 10:30am TrebleBells Worship and Music Comm. Mtg 22nd Sunday after Pentecost 9 9:00am Holy Communion Worship Service w/ Dedication of Quilts 10:20am Sunday School Confirmation Class 10:30am TrebleBells 3 2:00pm Bingo at Utz Terrace 23rd Sunday after Pentecost 16 9:00am Holy Communion Worship Service 10:20am Sunday School 10:30am TrebleBells 3pm Felix Hell Organ Concert in Sanctuary 17 7:00pm Finance Committee Meeting 10 4 6:00pm St. Mark Eats at ElвЂ™Rancho on Elm Avenue 11 6:00pm HVAC Task Force Mtg 7:00pm Property Committee Meeting 12 December/January Combined вЂњBellsвЂќ Newsletter Deadline 18 19 1:00pm Preschool Committee Meeting PAL Team #1 serves lunch at HACC First Sunday of Advent 30 9:00am Holy Communion Worship Service 10:20am Sunday School 10:30am TrebleBells 25 7:00pm Congregation Council Meeting 7:00pm Evangelism Committee Meeting 7 10:30am-12:00pm Bible Study Blood Pressure Screening 13 9am Sewing Group 8 5:30pm Spoken Liturgy of Word and Sacrament 14 10:30am-12:00pm Bible Study 15 5:30pm Spoken Liturgy of Word and Sacrament 7:00-8:30pm Trinity Choir 7:00-8:30pm Trinity Choir 24 6 9am Sewing Group 7pm HAAMI Meets in Parlor SOS Group Meets in Counseling Offices Christ the King Sunday 23 9:00am Holy Communion Worship Service 10:20am Sunday School вЂњAdopt-A-PlatoonвЂќ Project Confirmation Class 10:3am TrebleBells 5 7:00-8:30pm Trinity Choir 26 7:30pm Thanksgiving Eve Service at Hanover Church of the Brethren 20 9am Sewing Group 5:30pm Fellowship Committee Meeting Guiding Hearts with Hope Webinar 27 Thanksgiving Holiday Office Closed Suicide Survivors Support GroupвЂ”7:00pm 3rd Monday HAAMIвЂ”7:00pm 1st Wednesday Coffee and Donuts Fellowship is Served in the Office Hallway after Sunday Morning Services 21 22 5:30pm Spoken Liturgy of Word and Sacrament 8:00am Assemble вЂњBellsвЂќ newsletter 10:30am-12:00pm Bible Study 28 Office Closed Additional Day for Holiday 29 5:30pm Spoken Liturgy of Word and Sacrament St. Mark Evangelical Lutheran Church 129 Charles Street Hanover, PA 17331 November Newsletter is presented to the Glory of God In Memory of Loved Ones By Sam and Marie Wise! By the grace of God in and through Jesus Christ, the mission of the people of St. Mark Evangelical Lutheran Church, Hanover, Pennsylvania, is to hear and share the Good News of Jesus Christ through Word and Sacrament ministry. Since our founding in 1864 it has been the mission of the people of St. Mark Church to testify in word and deed that no one is outside GodвЂ™s mercy in Jesus Christ. The St. Mark Bells November, 2014 St. Mark Evangelical Lutheran Church 129 Charles Street, Hanover PA 17331 Office - (717) 637-8904 Fax - (717) 637-3040 Website: stmarkhanover.org email [email protected] Office Hours: Monday-Friday 8:00-12:00 and 1:00-4:30 Church Staff Pastor: Rev. Kirk Griffin cell (717) 808-1986 [email protected] Office Coordinator: Mary Lynn Berry cell (717) 880-4321 [email protected] Director of Music: Melinda Elnaggar вЂ“ 357-0612 (cell) Interim Organist: Arlo Ehly вЂ“ 253-8953 (cell) Sexton/Housekeeper: Erin Eyster вЂ“ 858-5492 (cell) Preschool Director: Martha Lippy вЂ“ 637-8891 Financial Secretary: Cara Lynn Clabaugh вЂ“ 637-1154 Congregation Council President: Rick Pado вЂ“ 633-1486 Vice-President: Chris Kindschuh вЂ“ 630-0535 Secretary: Alison Peterson вЂ“ 359-4666 Treasurer: Susan OвЂ™Brien вЂ“ 412-952-9057 (cell) Additional 2014 Councilmembers: Earl Barnhart, Robert Kerr, Carol Reese, Robert Rhoten, Eric Shipman, Bill VandenHeuvel, and Ron Wentz